Are Low Carb Diets Over-rated for Health and Longevity? The Kitavan and Okinawa Diets.
In a previous article “Are Very Low Carb Diets Over-rated for Weight Loss“, we looked at comparing very popular diet approaches such as Atkins vs South Beach/Zone diets for the benefits of losing weight. What was the verdict? Well, we saw that with a same protein and calorie load, there was no advantages in weight loss for any…as they all worked. We also saw that having some days of higher carbohydrate intakes allowed for the hormone leptin to increase (which also ties in with metabolic rate). So now we are going to look at another aspect, health and longevity, when it comes to carbohydrate intake.
The Kitavan Diet
In a series of papers on the study of the native people from Kitava (island in Papua New Guinea), we come across a very healthy….and high carb eating society (Gasp! I’ll let the shock set in as many may have thought carbs are evil…but we’ll talk more about that later). Here’s an abstract from the study that sums up the results.
This study examined cross-sectional age relations of blood pressure, anthropometric indexes, serum lipids, and hemostatic variables in 203 subsistence horticulturists aged 20-86 y in Kitava, Trobriand Islands, Papua New Guinea. The population is characterized by extreme leanness (despite food abundance), low blood pressure, low plasma plasminogen activator inhibitor 1 activity, and rarity of cardiovascular disease. Tubers, fruit, fish, and coconut are dietary staples whereas dairy products, refined fat and sugar, cereals, and alcohol are absent and salt intake is low.
also Stephen @ Whole Health Source expanded a bit more on these numbers for the Kitavans, and makes an interesting relation…
Kitavans eat a diet of root vegetables, coconut, fruit, vegetables and fish and have undetectable levels of cardiovascular disease (CVD), stroke and overweight. Despite smoking like chimneys. 69% of their calories come from carbohydrate, 21% from fat and 10% from protein. This is essentially a carbohydrate-heavy version of what our paleolithic ancestors ate.
The first thing we can say is that a high intake of carbohydrate is not enough, by itself, to cause overweight or the diseases of civilization. It’s also not enough to cause insulin resistance.
Essentially you have a natural group of people who are as a whole very lean (although they are not starving, and eat plenty of calories), healthy, have good skin, strong teeth and suffer from virtually none of all the “diseases of civilization” (obesity, heart diseases, cancers) that are increasing at an alarming rate…oh yeah, did we mention they also eat a high intake of carbs and saturated fat (mostly from coconuts) in the process?
The Okinawa Diet
Next up we have the Okinawans, living off the coast of Japan and most studied for their history of health and longevity. They too are a group of people with excellent health, virtually no “diseases of civilization,” live long and functional (no “aging diseases” like loss of memory or movement)…all while having higher intake of calories from carbohydrates (upwards of 50-60%).
The Okinawa way isn’t a magic diet or exercise plan – it’s a lifestyle. There’s nothing complicated about it. Okinawa’s enjoy simple lives and they eat from the earth. That’s it. No plan, no time limit, no weighing, no beginning and no end. Okinawa’s have remarkably clean arteries and low cholesterol. Heart disease, breast cancer and prostate cancer are rare. This can be attributed to the Okinawans mostly plant based diet that includes fish and soy foods with a variety of vegetables and a moderate amounts of good fats. They consume locally grown vegetables and large quantities of tofu (high protein, low-fat, calcium, vitiman E) and seaweed (higher in vitamin and minerals than land vegetables).
from Associated Content story – The Okinawa Diet: The Key to Longevity?
What you do find in common with the Kitavans is the source of those carbs comes mainly all from vegetables (notably sweet potato). While there are also numbers for fat/protein that seem to change depending on who you ask….cutting through the %s, the sources are still whole and natural such as seafood or pork and cooking with lard (not vegetable oils).
Not All Carbs are Created Equal
Ok, we have seen just 2 examples of high carb eating societies of people that can live long and prosper (yes I know what I just said, must have been from seeing the new Star Trek movie). But the real debate should not be about exact %s of carbs in a diet, but WHAT are the sources of those carbs. If we take a graph from a previous article Obesity, Diabetes, and Other Diseases vs Food Trends in Pictures, we will “see” where the major changes have occured.
More calories and more carbs over time.
Carb sources increasing in cereal grains and sugar.
The pictures speak for themselves……calories have increased…..even though carbs have increased (while protein and fat has not)….the biggest increases of carbs now comes from cereal grains and sugar. Can we see a trend with increased obesity/disease and what is going on above?
Going into this a bit more, here is a good excerpt from Ryan @ Matters to Me who explains the difference in carbs:
T.L. Cleave, who wrote an important book called The Saccharine Disease. In this book, Cleave notes that the rural Zulu of Africa (in the 1950s) were in good health on a diet comprised of 90% carbohydrate calories. In contrast, the urban Zulu ate less carbohydrates (81%), yet had more diseases than the rural Zulu. Cleave concluded that the amount of carbs being eaten by the two groups didn’t matter so much as the types of carbs. This seemed to make all the difference: the rural population ate maize and root vegetables while the city-dwellers consumed refined, industrialized carbs, such as sugar and white flour.
..it’s not as simple as whole foods vs. refined foods — it’s also a matter of the qualities of the foods. To illustrate this, let’s evaluate two of the evils that Cleave proclaims to be the cause of modern man’s health demise. On one hand we have white flour: a starch — also known chemically as a polysaccharide — which is broken down to glucose in the body. Sugar, on the other hand, is a disaccharide with a significant difference: it’s composed of glucose and fructose, which the body handles quite differently than it does starch.
A high flux of fructose to the liver, the main organ capable of metabolizing this simple carbohydrate, disturbs normal hepatic carbohydrate metabolism leading to two major consequences… perturbations in glucose metabolism and glucose uptake pathways, and a significantly enhanced rate of de novo lipogenesis and TG [triglyceride] synthesis, driven by the high flux of glycerol and acyl portions of TG molecules coming from fructose catabolism. These metabolic disturbances appear to underlie the induction of insulin resistance commonly observed with high fructose feeding in both humans and animal models.
As well, this is also a great observation made by Matt at 180 Degree Health:
So carbohydrates raise insulin levels temporarily to store away glucose into cells. Is that a bad thing? Of course it’s not. The rise and fall of insulin is no different than the rise and fall of your chest as your breathe.
The biggest flaw; however, is the idea that repeatedly raising insulin levels will somehow trigger insulin resistance over time. This is nonsense. The rural Zulu’s and modern day Kitavans, who both eat insulin-raising carbohydrates at every meal never went on to show signs of insulin resistance. They didn’t show signs of it because THEY WEREN’T INSULIN RESISTANT! Insulin resistance is something that appears to be triggered only in a reduced metabolic state – something I’ve reasonably concluded by following the work of Broda Barnes and Mark Starr – two men who reported never seeing a case of type II diabetes (severe insulin resistance) occur in someone with a closely monitored metabolism.
Since the only known substance that can reliably trigger insulin resistance in humans and animal subjects – something that was also introduced at the onset of modern disease – and something that has been associated with insulin resistance syndromes such as hypoglycemia, poor glucose tolerance testing, cavities and so on for going on a century is sugar. Not just any sugar, as straight glucose from starchy foods absolutely cannot induce insulin resistance – but fructose. Not surprisingly, the consumption of fructose is one of the two largest dietary changes to take place during mankind’s “ascent” to modernism.
So What’s the Real Answer?
When it comes to carbs, it is the source that seems to be of vital importance for health and longevity (which includes obesity that can come from a malfunctioning glucose metabolism). We have seen healthy societies with various %s (high and low) of carb intake but they all have one big thing in common…..they all eat natural “real foods”. They also have another thing in common, once people from their culture move into a more “modernized” food environment, then the health benefits seen previously decrease dramatically.
There doesn’t have to be just one way for health (and there usually never is). So don’t spend most of your time worrying about some magic macronutrient % and focus instead on getting your glucose metabolism fixed in the first place (especially your liver). Whether you choose to eat very low carb, moderate carb or higher carb… just keep these simple basic rules below in mind:
- Eat Mostly All Real Foods, and we even have a FREE shopping list here to help you out (“Right Click” image below/link above to save your Free shopping list as PDF)
- Have a Active Lifestyle Mindset (make it part of your lifestyle, something you enjoy, an active hobby whether alone or with friends/family)
- Stop Stressing Out, Relax and Enjoy Each Day (including just being present and relaxing when you eat, and not stuffing your face mindlessly)
Print This Post
This is consistent with my experience. I lost 60 pounds by simply cutting calories. I only recently discovered that about 60% of my daily calories come from carbs.
[Reply]
Good article, Mike … but it left me with some nagging questions …
Since you mention in the conclusion that “an active lifestyle mindset” is also part of healthy living, I am hoping you will also be profiling the amount of exercise the Kitavans, Okinawans, and Zulus were engaging in while eating their natural, high-carb diets. My understanding is that steady, low intensity exercise (like walking, cultivating, etc – the kind of exercise probably most of those people engaged in daily for several hours as part of their subsistence lifestyle) promotes insulin sensitivity.
I certainly like the idea of eating more “natural” carbs and not gaining weight, but it is not practical for me – and most people in modern society – to engage in several hours of walking or other manual labor daily in order to increase our insulin sensitivity.
The Old Order Amish eat a diet with a fair amount of refined flour and sugar (although with a brief Google search, I can’t find out how much, compared to a standard American diet) and they have lower levels of obesity and other diseases of civilization. They are, however, much more physically active than modern Americans.
I request, Mike, that you also write an article about how the exercise component of a subsistence lifestyle contributes to good health. Another article on how the stress in such a lifestyle contributes to good health would be good, too (since you mention stress management in your recommendations). I wonder if any indigenous cultures had their health profiled while undergoing a long period of stress, like a natural disaster or a disease epidemic. That would be a good way to determine how the stress level of a lifestyle affects health.
[Reply]
Nice.
As for the Okinawa diet, it’s interesting to note how the AC article focuses on soy foods and “large quantities of tofu (high protein, low-fat, calcium, vitiman E) and seaweed (higher in vitamin and minerals than land vegetables)” without noting that many of these traditional diets do include soybean-based foods, they tend to be prepared quite differently from what we get here in the agro-industrialized West.
For example, as a Chinese-American I grew up on Kikkoman, but noticed the other day that wheat was the #1 ingredient in soy sauce. Umm, wha? I’ve since switched to organic wheat-free Tamari.
Also, Westerners that incorporate tofu into their diet tend to do so without incorporating fermented soy products such as miso paste (or tempeh), or serve tofu without seaweed or fermented soy sauce products such as Tamari.
Not to mention that tofu isn’t tofu, just as any European knows bread isn’t bread! In other words, Okinawan tofu is prepared very differently from even other Japanese forms of Tofu.
Just some thoughts, I’ve been trying to learn more about properly soaked/fermented soy products lately and saw this post
[Reply]
@Angel
I don’t know about the Zulus and the Kitavans, but as a martial artist of many years, I have to say that when people say “Okinawa” the first thing that comes to mind isn’t their diet (although I love my agedashi tofu), but Okinawan Karate, a hard-style form of martial arts.
Google for Okinawa physical culture and you’ll find articles such as these:
http://www.okinawaindex.com/index/?tid=2&cid=275&id=4
“For the elders, physical activity is part of the natural rhythm of life. Most older Okinawans are active in some way that not only keeps them physically fit, but also connects with their spiritual belief system. The activity might be as simple as gardening — where Shinto beliefs imbue plants and herbs with spiritual energy. It may be a more structured activity such as traditional Okinawan dance, which is meditative and celebrates myths and stories of the old kingdom. Or it may even be an invigorating martial art like karate, which demands a harmonious blend of mind and body.”
[Reply]
Gary Taubes has an excellent discussion of these cases in Good Calories, Bad Calories. In addition to the point you make about the type of carbs, he notes that abundance of any sort of carbs can be the problem. If your society doesn’t produce tons of extra calories, the carbs aren’t a problem.
[Reply]
Angel – Good question. As far as practical application of an active lifestyle, I understand that most of us are not going to go out and fish for hours for food or whatnot….but if we can try and incorporate more physical activity where we can, it’s a step in the right direction (more walking, less TV, finding a fun active hobby like hiking/tennis/dancing). Most all of us have enough time, it’s just how we prioritize it that is the key factor (which means maybe saying “No” to other people more…and “Yes” to yourself!). It is also interesting to note that societies known for longevity have strong social support and ties, they are a community with similar goals/lifestyle. That is really important for us as well, to align ourselves with people of similar outlooks on living a healthy lifestyle for ongoing support and motivation.
The addition of resistance training will help improve muscle insulin sensitivity and glucose management. As for carb levels, well people also need to take into account where their glucose metabolism is right now. As an overweight person obviously does not have the same glucose metabolism as a leaner person (each will tolerate glucose differently due to insulin resistance issues). Carbs are not 100% evil, BUT that is not to say that periods of lower carb intake also are not effective (such as in carb cycling for weight loss). Eating “real carbs” (and real foods overall, which will also keep calories in check) is the first step to helping your metabolism get healed, then you can add in some carb cycling (lower stages with occasional higher refeeds) to enhance weight loss based on your activity level (more intense exercise can tollerate more carb/glucose for muscle glucogen storage/performance).
Also of course we have “Intermittent Fasting”…..where periods of no food can actually help improve your glucose metabolism through the natural feast-famine survival model.
Keep in mind, the main point of the article was to show that when people are eating “real carbs”, then a long and lean lifestyle can be had…..that is not to say that using lower carb approaches to weight loss are not valid especially with those that are overweight and have a compromised metabolism. (although there does seem to be metabolic benefits to have some periodic carb refeeds and not stay very low all the time) People need to find what carb level works for them….gives them steady energy and then stick to real foods.
[Reply]
Mike,
Thanks for the quick and thoughtful response.
Oh yeah – I forgot about IF. I wonder how often indigenous cultures fast, as well. That’s another piece of the insulin sensitivity puzzle.
And thanks for mentioning “compromised metabolism.” While the indigenous cultures stuff is interesting, what I am really interested in is information on improving compromised metabolism – unless you can find an indigenous culture that subsisted on Pepsi and Doritos throughout their teens and twenties, like I did.
[Reply]
I’m with Mike on this one. As Art might say, move often at a slow pace, but once in a while it does help to work/sprint/lift hard!
http://conditioningresearch.blogspot.com/2007/08/soccer-burns-more-fat-than-jogging.html
I walked ten miles last Sunday here in SF (to get to a bookstore on the other side of town) and felt so good I walked a few more miles and did some Kettlebell Turkish Get-Ups and Bottoms-Up Cleans the next day.
I’m also a fan of IF, though so far I’ve just tried Ori’s _Warrior Diet_, an eating plan I was on for six months as opposed to what Dr. Mark Hyman calls the SAD–the Standard American Diet!
Amazing stuff, though I would mainly recommend Ori’s WD to those who are devout. Other IF programs may work better for the general population. I was getting too skinny and so toned down the WD after 6 months to a more modest IF style.
My teammates always wonder how I practice fasted but the truth is I play really well fasted as long as the duration of exercise is less than two or three hours of intermittent play. I realized though that if you’re playing 5-6 hours, burning close to 4000 kcalories a day at a sports tournament (according to my HRM), it generally helps to consume a *small* amount of carbs/proteins every hour. Still working on the ratio but I’ve found Chia fresca to be a great way to get a little dose of micronutrients without overloading the digestive system, for those tournaments/practices that last more than a few hours.
[Reply]
Angel – I would suggest first to focus on liver health, one of your main metabolic organs. With that of course removing all pretreated/processed carbs is important (and all the hidden sources of fructose/HFCS/sugar such as in sauces, sodas, salad dressings, etc). Also you may want to try a period/fast of fructose all together for a week or so (including all fruit) to just give your liver a rest…and then reintroduce fruit back in. It’s not mentioned here, but high intakes of PUFAs (polyunsaturated fats) is also linked to liver malfunction (namely a “fatty” liver). So make sure you are not cooking with vegetable oils (or eating foods that are cooked in it) and stick with the more stable fats for cooking/eating such as butter, lard, coconut and Olive oil. I will probably do an article very shortly on how to speed up a compromised metabolism….but those are the key factors to start with above.
Leslie – I am with you (as well as Art and Mark Sisson) on doing the slow and steady stuff more often along with the more intense stuff in shorter bouts. As long as you are able to keep restoring muscle glycogen, you should be all set for the more longer strenuous bouts of exercise when they come around. Hence why I can go mountain biking for an hour or two (if it’s up and down fun and not all uphill racing) fasted no problems….but only when the muscle glycogen stores are topped off (otherwise I will “bonk” and crash my blood sugar).
[Reply]
@Mike I’ll have to skim through Mark’s book some time, do you like it?
Glycogen eh? I read a Human Kinetics book on “Endurance Sports Nutrition” but it didn’t really have IFasters in mind, and the liquid supplements section was all commercial products which have ingredient lists far too long far my taste…
I’m still looking for a way to get 3:1 or so carbs to protein in a more organic way than gel packs or Accelerade. Maybe next tourney I’ll try making my own bagels again (not hard to make better bagels than you can get in 49 States) from scratch, but this time dip ‘em in Chia seeds
. That or just get electrolyte powder in bulk to mix with soaked Chia.
[Reply]
To add to LeslieW’s post. I am sure you are aware that they all ferment or similarly treat their carbs, probably in order to eliminate lectins (see w.A. Price foundation). Having lived in South Africa I am quite sure the Zulus ferment their corn. Since we will not do it (to be practical) it seems to me we are better off staying with low carb.
[Reply]
“Not surprisingly, the consumption of fructose is one of the two largest dietary changes to take place during mankind’s “ascent” to modernism.”
Fructose is also known as “fruit sugar.” It’s difficult to believe that this is something plaguing modern man. MANY “real foods” contain fructose. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose#Food_sources
Am I missing something?
[Reply]
Hortense, the problem is quantity of fructose, not just fructose itself. An apple has 10-12g of fructose and helps fill you up, along with having some vitamins and minerals. A 12oz Coke has like 25-30g of fructose and tends to go along with other sugary foods. Sugar is now added to EVERYTHING, but it’s fructose in particular that damages the liver the most.
Cheers
Scott
[Reply]
The theme I gleamed from these two diets is the fact that it was a lifestyle for these groups and it all seemed to be in moderation. My problem has always been over-doing it on whatever food group that was in front of me. I am slowly learning to moderate my eating habits and it seems to be working for me.
[Reply]
This sounds reasonable enough (that factors other than carbohydrate are respondible for health problems related to glucose intolerance/hyperinsulinemia as evidenced by the fact that traditional people have no problem tolerating dietary carbohydrate).
Thing is, the carb-cuddly crowd doesn’t understand that once metabolic disease has taken hold, it is no longer reasonable to assume that a “kitavan diet” is going to jive. Speaking as a ruined wreck metabolism person myself I can quite assuredly say that trying to eat potatoes is a nightmare. Corn cereals are impossible. Coconut is even a problem.
Glucose might not cause the problem, but it sure exacerbates and triggers the defect. A low carb diet, for me, is like splinting a sprained ankle – not a cure, but it allows me to function like everyone else (i.e. it controls my morbid obesity, hypoglycemia, PCOS, some mood/energy problems).
Glucose consumption, for americans, is like trying to run on a sprained ankle. The running didn’t cause the sprain but if you subject the injured ankle to it, don’t be surprised when your symptoms get out of control.
Personally I think the underlying cause of metabolic problems is not going to be dietary. I don’t think it is fat or fructose or anything else like that. I think it is most strongly related to mitochondrial damage that occurs either prenatally or later in life; I think industrial pollutants trigger this damage. Stress , sunlight deficiency may also cause it. Foods might play a role (e.g. high fructose intakes and inflammatory foods like omega 6) but it is probably subordinate to the more major role played by industrial chemicals, stress/living patterns. I also believe metabolic abnormalities in pregnant mothers may program their children to have even more severe metabolic abnormalities (rat studies support this – and it would explain why each generation becomes fatter and fatter earlier and earlier).
I used to think it was all food, carbs. When I realized it wasn’t carbs (because non-industrialized people are perfectly healthy eating potatoes), at that point I realized the problem couldn’t be food either. If it’s not carbs, it must not be food then (because as a person with significant metabolic problems I can assuredly say that if carbs aren’t the problem, food isn’t the problem, since manipulation of carbohydrate makes such a vast difference other factors might as well not even matter ).
The major difference between healthy societies and unhealthy ones seems to be industrial exposure, modernity… so, rather than looking to food, perhaps it’s something (several things) more specific to industry/modern living than food.
[Reply]
Personally I think the underlying cause of metabolic problems is not going to be dietary. <—————- i cann’t agree with this statement
Fructose and polyunsaturated fats are almost certainly implicated in causing gross liver dysfunction.
Seems like the writer of this article has read the book “the sugar fix”
I’m still on the ropes for if i think a low carb diet is better for longevity vs a higher carb- low fructose low polyunsatured diet.
I’d still like to know how much fructose per day is healthy– some fructose would be good to replace liver glycogen (if even by a slight hormetic response)– but not much!
[Reply]
If the problem is fructose, why does a bowl of puffed wheat with skim milk have me shaking with hypoglycemia within 1.5 hours? I am maintained on a 60 gram or less carb diet, and the only omega 6 I’m getting is from meat and nuts (I don’t eat chips and such things because of my low carb limit). Gonna need a better answer than “fructose and PUFA” cuz I don’t eat much of that.
As someone with metabolic problems (rather than a hypothetical, a statistic) I can tell you with certainty fructose and omega 6 isn’t the reason I have these problems. They are genetic and it has to be something other than diet because no matter how I change my diet I still can’t eat carbs without problems.
[Reply]
@Leslie – Mark’s book is a great read, but if you have followed his blog for years and know all about the primal lifestyle already, it’s probably not going to tell you anything you didn’t already know….although nice to have a handy refresher course to have sitting around to reread time and time again (as none of us will master everything right away…or we just get caught up and need reminders of what is important). As for the replenishment, if it’s during a competition the liquid will probably “hold” better than trying to eat something and keep it down. Otherwise you can also do a carb cycle of low carbs and then higher 1-2 days prior to make sure you glycogen stores are topped off (the old supercompensation carb loading trick).
@Miki – Yes you will find more fermented vegetables in their diets, and a healthy gut is a happy body.
@Hortense – like Scott mentioned, it’s not that fructose is 100% bad (as your liver likes to have some)…it’s when too much is supplied to the liver and it leads to other metabolic issues like fatty liver. Fruits are minimal sources.
@Jeremy – Yes you will always see a form of moderation, as the Okinawa’s practice the 80% rule…eat till you are 80% full. Not too mention when you eat real foods full of fiber and water, it will fill you up and leave you satisfied with less calories when you compare to more modern processed options.
@Aaron – On the longevity aspect, it’s hard to really always have one set of parameters….as most of the people living longer live in a completely different environment from most modern societies with different variables……some smoke….some have higher fat diets…..some don’t exercise. Genetics plays some role…but not so much above 20-30% longer, and all people who live longer are also usually active and healthy for their whole life…not struggling with diabetes or heart disease in their 40s..50s…60s..etc. What you will never find is the high intake of processed foods, sugars, PUFAs, etc.
@Woo – I don’t think you will find a “carb cuddly” crowd here….usually it’s probably the opposite. The point of the article was to highlight that it does matter about what your “carb” sources are (as seen with even long living cultures, when people leave and go to the modern world….they get sicker and their longevity lessens). You cant say a sweet potato is the same hormonally/metabolically to the body as a slice of pizza or bagel. It just isn’t. Like you mention…it’s the more modernized societies with higher problems, because of their modernized/industrialized food. The bread people ate 1000 years ago isn’t even close to the bread that is highly processed now (and the body will have different hormonal responses to each). Of course a toxic environment outside of food is not going to help one’s overall health either…so lifestyle is a factor as well. Know that in your case, you have an existing problem….your glucose metabolism is compromised (much like a diabetic), the damage is done and is not the same as a native Kitanan living with perfect glucose metabolic health. A bowl of cereal with skim milk is a disaster for your blood sugar (and would also probably be a disaster for most people’s blood sugar as it’s all quick breaking down carbs in that meal), and is not anywhere close to the glucose response you would get from a sweet potato. There is a difference in carbs, they are not all equal. But for you, the best thing is to focus on a healing solution….which means taking steps to help improve your glucose metabolism (and all the organs involved)…such as removing all processed foods, vegetable oils, possibly looking into fish oil (as there is most always an inflammation issue with glucose issues), getting steady exercise, eating more whole foods especially when it comes to carbs…..as cereal and bread is not good as much as the food pyramid and slick marketing on tv try and tell you. A low carb approach can work for you…and you may also find adding in fruits and vegetables also can work for you. Personally I am not here to tout a particular % as the one right way all the time….just here to get people healthy from where they are right now, and eating whole foods is the easiest and most effective step (as it will also keep calories under control as well, which is needed for weight loss).
[Reply]
I do know from experience that for me any carbohydrate ingestion is very addictive and I no longer allow myself to be around any carbs other than a green salad slathered in Ex Virgin Olive Oil. Any fruit is a no no.
Eating for me is not a recreational sport anymore. It is just what I must do daily to survive. I only eat chicken, beef, pork, eggs, hard cheese, butter, EVOO, bacon,
cream. Not totally primal, but it works for me.
At 66 yrs old, I have dropped 35 pounds in 6 months and am 6′ 2″ and weigh a stable 160 now, BF from 33% to 12%. All I need to do now is move some of the paunch adipose fat…convert it to lean muscle in my upper body. Resistance exercise and Tabata type sprinting should do this for me. And IF for 30 hours
twice a week is an important part of my lifeplan.
I think that the fructose in the fruits is what is so addicting for me (some are as much as 50% fructose and 50% regular sugar) and in a food plentiful society, it can be very difficult to not to overdo fruits. And besides, the food pyramid says be good little citizens and eat your whole grains, fruits and vegetables.
The most primal person I follow is Lex Rooker on the Raw Paleo Forum. He has a Journal which has more than a years posting of his raw meat diet….which he has been on for about 5-6 years.
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/journals/lex’s-journal/
[Reply]
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said it’s the source of food that’s crucial. A diet high on carbs such as rice, bread, pasta, baking etc is not going to help. A carb heavy diet based on mountains of vegetables and fruit is often going to work out just fine. It just depends what works for you I guess…
[Reply]
hmm, i don’t think the argument quite holds that
.”the biggest increases of carbs now comes from cereal grains and sugar.”
so to add a refinement to a refinement:
cereal grains are highly processed in most instances.
sugar is a refined food – it’s actually a grass that’s been processed to the nth degree.
Your article really shows sources of carbs being *less* refined than most north americans enounter them, right?
that’s all – i take your point but the critical difference it sees is less actual source than what’s done with that source.
what do you think?
best
mc
begin2dig.com
[Reply]
So, if fructose is the devil, we must be talking about _processed_ fructose, and not fructose from fruit, correct?
[Reply]
List of Fructose in Fruit %
FRUIT LIST Fructose per 100 grams=.22pounds
1/2 pound = ~225 grams
1. Dates 32 grams/32%
2. Raisins 29.7 grams/27.9%
3. Figs 22.9 grams/22.9%
4. Prunes 12.5 grams/12.5%
5. Grapes 8.13 grams/8.13%
6. Pears 6.23 grams/6.23%
7. Cherries 6 grams/6%
8. Apples 5.9 grams/5.9%
9. Persimmon 5.56 grams/5.56%
10. Blueberry 4.97 grams/4.97%
11. Bananas 4.85 grams/4.85%
12. Kiwi Fruit 4.35 grams/4.35%
13. Watermelon 3.36 grams/3.36%
14. Plums 3.07 grams/3.07%
16. Honeydew Melon 2.96 grams/2.96%
17. Grapefruit 2.5 grams/2.5%
18. Strawberry 2.5 grams/2.5%
19. Blackberry 2.4 grams/2.4%
20. Raspberry 2.35 grams/2.35%
21. Orange 2.25 grams/2.25%
22. Pineapple 2.05 grams/2.05%
23. Cantaloupe 1.87 grams/1.87%
24. Peach 1.53 grams/1.53%
25. Nectarine 1.37 grams/1.37%
26. Apricot 0.94 gram/0.94%
From: http://www.reducetriglycerides.com/reader_triglycerides_low_fructose_fruit.htm
[Reply]
Ryan, not necessarily. It’s just that fruit tends to be self-limiting due to bulk, whereas the fructose from sugar hidden in all kinds of processed foods is less so, especially in liquid form like fruit juices (even 100% juices) and colas. So we’re talking about processed foods, not necessarily processed fructose since fructose is fructose is fructose. Again though, fructose from fruit tends to be very hard to overdo, though for someone with metabolic derangement, it is a good idea to avoid too much fruit as well.
I can eat fruit with no problems, but I’m lean and have never had metabolism issues. While no one “gets fat” off of fruit (it’s the processed foods in the diet that do that), if someone is screwed up metabolically, too much fruit could help them stay that way.
Does that make sense?
Cheers
Scott
[Reply]
Real Food?
What a unique concept!
[Reply]
Thanks Scott – that clears it up!
[Reply]
coconut oil (fat) reduces insulin levels. As a diabetic- I use it everyday to stay off meds and keep my BGs low, but I would never eat a processed grain including bread or white starch rice from a box. Low Carb works for me. I’m far healthier, no meds for diabetes or blood pressure- body fat below 18%. Eat clean food, eat less and it takes care of itself
[Reply]
@Dexter – sounds like what you are doing is working…nice job and keep up the great work…I mean lifestyle!
@Elliot – Like they say…..I never have seen someone get obese eating too many apples.
@MC – Got a little confused….but you are right..that what happens to the “source” also changes it….as a sweet potato is not the same as potato chips (which most modern people would probably call a vegetable).
@Ryan – Like Scott said….it’s not all bad, but it’s the total overload that can happen on the liver that causes problems. People with metabolic issues already would probably do well to do a 100% fructose elimination diet for a couple weeks and then slowly add in back in (only in the form of fruit). Considering fruit is supposed to be “seasonal” as well…it’s not something I eat all the time either.
@DR – Shocking….I know…so simple it will never catch on!
@Pjnoir – Coconut Oil is a very healthy fat, and also helps keep the metabolism strong. You said it….eat clean (or real) foods…which usually comes with moderation and less calories….and the body can take care of itself.
[Reply]
@Woo said:
“If the problem is fructose, why does a bowl of puffed wheat with skim milk have me shaking with hypoglycemia within 1.5 hours?”
This first comment is a bit off the carb topic, but why not some healthy bacon & eggs for breakfast (both from a local farmer you know) instead of puffed wheat (SUPER processed) and SKIM milk (denatured by having the most healthy part, the cream, removed)???
I found this post fascinating because I’ve often wondered why something as natural as a potato wouldn’t be on the “OK” list, starch or not. It makes perfect sense that for a healthy person it’s all about the RIGHT carbs, and for someone overweight or someone who needs to heal their metabolism or immune system, they may need to really limit most carbs at least for the time being.
Kelly
[Reply]
@woo,
I would say the puffed wheat converts in your gut directly sugar, and then the insulin comes rushing in to control the wheat (sugar) you dumped into your system.
And you may have celiac disease which is uncurable but can be successfully controlled by never eating any products containing gluten.
My favorite breakfast…3 eggs fried over easy in butter with 1/4 cup of
cream with 6 tablespoons of lemon juice heated just to slightly bubbling and poured over the eggs. Tastes similiar to eggs benedict. Plus 4 pieces of thick floppy bacon.
Regarding a potato…remember there are no essential carbs that are needed by
human beings. Heal the immune system with a 65% fat, 35% protein diet.
There are no carbs needed for humans to thrive. The potato probably won’t
trigger an insulin rush, but for me I avoid all the carbs because they are addictive for me.
[Reply]
@ Dexter….”I avoid all the carbs because they are addictive for me.”….and that brings up an important point for anyone of any carb intake….if you can’t control your cravings, you might be better off with low levels. The main goal of course being control and health….but if one piece of fruit causes you to break down and dive into a bucket of ice cream, well it’s not helping. Some can control cravings better than others….so that is important to take into account.
[Reply]
@Mike OD,
Thanks for the response. I am long over diving into a bucket of ice cream, I just don’t do carbs anymore and since I don’t do them, I don’t miss them. I have never felt better on this zero carb lifestyle.
[Reply]
@MikeOD
I don’t think you would advocate a daily dose of booze for a recovering alcoholic just to control cravings. Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. One is never cured just like I will be a carboholic for the rest of my life. So I just avoid carbs for my well being.
[Reply]
@ Dexter – Hope you didn’t take my comment personally, was not directed at you. I encourage people to follow any % they see fit to be healthy in the long run….as that is what counts. No I wouldn’t tell an alcoholic to drink a beer daily to control any “cravings”…although some people are able to have a beer without needing to drink more. If there is an underlying problem of “addiction” to anything….I think in the long run the best solution is dropping any “attachment” to that “addiction” and be able to control it in any situation, as avoiding anything 100% may work for some…but there could still be an underlying issue underneath that needs to be addressed. You can “experience” a carb binge….but that doesn’t “make” you a full time addict IMO (zen thing). What you experience time to time, and who you are….are not the same (unless you want something attached to you for a lifetime…which I personally would not). Kind of like “stress”…..we don’t all need to move to an island to find peace and control, we just need to find control and make peace happen wherever we are.
[Reply]
Mike,
Thanks for the article. I agree with you that developing the right mindset regarding diet, food sources, fitness, etc. is much of the battle. No matter where you are in your nutrition and conditioning, changing your lifestyle to make it conducive to fitness and longevity will make a world of difference.
Alan Hammond
[Reply]
It seems to me that one of the problems with any great discussion about nutrition is that a whole lot of people are interested not because they are perfectly healthy with an interest, but because they have already annihilated their metabolism, not on purpose obviously, and some probably prenatal/genetic as well, but the end result is that you get a bunch of people who are oversized and want to be healthier and thinner, but all the fabulous advice (like ‘eat carbs just not crapfood carbs’) not only does no good but can even be more harm than help to those metabolisms. Anybody who doesn’t think that carbs matter unless there’s fructose or wheat intolerance clearly has never experienced having a metabolism where they do, is all I can say, and I (and many, many others I know) pointedly do.
You recommend as your first suggestion that people “focus instead on getting your glucose metabolism fixed in the first place”. I think your wonderful blog would be even more wonderful if you would focus a few posts on this, specifically.
At this point in our world, I think HEALING metabolism is one of the most important subjects there is. It really does not matter ‘what is healthy’ if that alllegedly ‘healthy’ eating does you no good and even harm because youre metabolism’s so torqued it handles it badly.
For all the fascinating theory propounded by people who are already healthy about what to do to lose weight for example, the fact is that most of that only works temporarily for people with damaged metabolisms. So, like me, you can change your eating habits and activity level and drop a lot of weight (100+#) really fast — and then simply stop losing weight, period, for a lonnnnnng period of time (years, though not all of that eating well, mostly because the lack of results is totally demoralizing). And eating whole foods or paleo or lowcarb or high fat or [insert one other fabulous idea] doesn’t do jack.
Sometimes the problem is not the food, it’s the metabolism. Which is actually the point of the article in a way! But it only underscores how important some focus on metabolic repair is. As well as some way to actually measure results. Since it’s easy to say “eat chem-free! eat whole foods!” but if someone does that and nothing changes, maybe that’s all just armchair theory in the end.
Best,
PJ
[Reply]
Mike OD Reply:
@PJ – You are right that sadly most only really get interested in healthy eating….when the damage is done. But the good news is that it’s never too late to do something about it as the body is a tremendous machine. As for people with damage done to their glucose metabolism (mainly insulin resistance) and other possible metabolic damage to the organs involved (liver, thyroid, adrenals), it is important for a healing lifestyle. While a very low carb approach is a healing approach, it just is not the only way. Many diabetics have been treated with other diets such as the Zone which is a “high” carb diet by many people’s opinions (although at 100-150g a day I hardly call that high). Of course for an approach like the Zone to be truly effective it must stress eating real foods to help keep a stable blood sugar. Insulin is still secreted even in the lowest of carb diets. Then you have the organs of the metabolism that are responsible for metabolic rate. I’ve worked with people with serious issues like fatty liver, diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis and more….I’ve seen how destructive the body can be. Eating “real foods” is a natural way to help the healing process but not the only thing as well. Exercise of course does great improvements to the glucose metabolism and there are lifestyle such as stress, sleep, etc. Weight loss is about eating less than your metabolism burns….so if your metabolism is hindered…then it’s necessary to help get it running optimally once again. Food is just one part of the equation…although a very important one.
Also this is one of the reasons I promote IF….as it is a natural healing way of eating that can also help improve the glucose metabolism and other factors.
[Reply]
PJ’s comment got me thinking…
Would you all agree that if the immune system is healed, the metabolism will also be healed?
Kelly
[Reply]
wow – what an interesting article and even more interesting comments! and here I thought that calorie restriction was the way to go. Seriously, weight loss, low cholesterol, life expectancy, all of these goals are complicated with many factors – most of which we dont even know and half of what we think we know is wrong anyway. I am always very skeptical of any ‘eat this way to solve all your health problems’ plan. But I dont give up, I just try to avoid processed food, too much of any one source of protein, fiber-filled fruits and veggies (perferably locally grown or from my own garden) and water (tap is just fine with me). plus not only do I exercise, but I stay active for the remainder of the day. Go to bed early and get up early. Not stress – even about how many grams of carbs I ate that day. who knows how long I’ll live or if my cholesterol and weight will stay in a ‘normal’ range, but for right now, I feel fine.
[Reply]
Mike OD Reply:
@ Jeff – While they do eat “less” than the average sedentary overweight American, they are not starving by any means. It is a complicated equation with many variables….and all we can do is live the way we know we should.
[Reply]
“T.L. Cleave, who wrote an important book called The Saccharine Disease. In this book, Cleave notes that the rural Zulu of Africa (in the 1950s) were in good health on a diet comprised of 90% carbohydrate calories. ”
The rural Zulu were being kept healthy by very high levels of physical activity.
[Reply]
Mike OD Reply:
@fitguy – while high “activity” lifestyle levels (esp compared to modern standards) is usually present in most original cultures….they are not by any means doing spin class or belong to a gym. Activity is just one of the factors…..but if you went ahead and replaced all their natural carbs with bread, cereal and pepsi…and I bet their health does change…and not for the better.
[Reply]
fitguy, why aren’t Americans protected from high carbohydrate diets with high activity levels?
[Reply]
googled Zulu Nutrition to find
“Food
Their main food diet consists of cow and agricultural products including barbecued and boiled meat; amasi (curdled milk), mixed with dry, ground corn or dry, cooked mealie-meal (corn flour); amadumbe (yams); vegetables; and fruits. The Zulu traditional beer is not only a staple food but a considerable source of nutrition. It is socially and ritually important and consumed on all significant occasions.”
Sounds like planty of meat and fermanting (mealie-meal is fermented) took place there….
[Reply]
Good article, great comments. A couple of points could have been brought out: Okinawans eat a lot of pork and therefore pork fat. I’m not saying in quantities Americans do at an average barbecue or all-you-can-eat buffet, but it is a mainstay of their diet. The emphasis here that they ate “lots of tofu” looks like selective reporting.
Eating fat and moderate protein along with carbohydrates reduces the glycemic level, slows down the digestion of the carbs. And coconut oil reportedly has thermogenic properties because it’s composed of medium-chain triglycerides. The quality of fat is everything. Pork fat from naturally raised pigs is a far cry from Crisco.
Good points about fructose. I still find too many starches problematic for me. What about individual metabolic differences?
I’m not the first person to observe that we eat carbs as though we were all lumberjacks when we’re actually sitting at computers…if you’re burning them off during physical activity, the carbohydrates in the diet are much less problematic.
For another view, see Fat Head, the movie and the website. It should not be taken as an endorsement of a fast food diet, but it does blow Morgan Spurlock’s shaky Supersize Me science and dubious claims out of the water (most people will, in fact, gain weight eating 5000 calories a day!). Tom Naughton ate lots of protein and animal fat but limited the carbs reasonably, not drastically, exercised modestly, and didn’t starve. And lost 12.5 pounds and improved his blood lipid profiles in the same amount of time Spurlock wrecked his body. Both eating at McDonald’s (which I don’t advocate for other obvious reasons). And Naughton is a lot more entertaining.
[Reply]
@Jeanmarie right on re: the quality of livestock (what are they fed / how are they raised or pastured or treated).
Also, it does seem to make sense that different subpopulations may respond differently to different diets, depending on genetics, gene expressions, and cultural habits.
I was listening to the StrengthCoach.com podcast recently and the creator of Precision Nutrition talked about changing macronutrient ratios depending on your body type: ectomorph or so on. I’ve been on an intermittent fasting diet (WD) for six months now with good body composition results but it definitely does make sense that different people will respond differently to various eating programs.
That is to say, perhaps we can’t easily extract the Okinawan diet and hope it’ll work for us without considering the gene expression, food composition (quality of farming and animal care, fermentation time and process, degree of milling and so on), and other constellation of factors surrounding just the diet itself.
[Reply]
LeslieW, excellent points:
“That is to say, perhaps we can’t easily extract the Okinawan diet and hope it’ll work for us without considering the gene expression, food composition (quality of farming and animal care, fermentation time and process, degree of milling and so on), and other constellation of factors surrounding just the diet itself.”
This is why I love the work of Weston A. Price so much. He observed what worked, kept track of all relevant data, extrapolated general principles. He did NOT say “we should all eat like the Masai” or “We must all eat like the Swiss villagers.” He looked for the common denominators in the dozen? two dozen? traditional diets he studied, and then researched those. We don’t have to replicate the Okinawan diet necessarily (I, for one, have given up tofu since leaving Japan, but I’d make an exception for freshly made tofu from a neighborhood tofuya-san) but we can learn from them.
I didn’t say much about how animals are raised but thanks for picking up on that. I think it makes a difference nutritionally and karmically how we treat the animals we depend on for food. As an ex -vegetarian, I restrict my animal protein intake to sources that I have a good idea care for the animals humanely, on pasture. This is better for them, for us, for the ecosystem, and I think it would be better for our economy and the climate if everyone did this. (Less farting of methane gas when ruminants are eating their natural diet of fresh grass or hay, instead of grains, which they are not adapted to digest. Indigestion leads to methane gas and ill cows, which are fed antibiotics to keep them standing. That’s the standard in factory farm production: just keep them standing!) The answers are out there…we just need to pay attention and insist on humane treatment. Vote with your plate!
[Reply]
I am glad to see this because in my reading over the last few years about metabolism and diet, I came to wonder if some of the other choices we make besides carb intake are damaging something underlying that leads to metabolic damage generally. For example, I am now aware that we don’t process seed foods to remove phytate anymore. Traditional cultures do, even though they may not understand what exactly it is that they’re doing. They just notice they feel better when they prepare food a certain way. And when I mentioned phytic acid to someone I know who enjoyed high school chemistry class, his eyes lit up. “That is an EXCELLENT chelating agent.” I had heard that diabetics seem to be short on chromium and magnesium–bingo–they had chelated them right out of their own bodies for far too long, maybe?
Add to this the low-fat trend. Apparently, you need fat to assimilate fat-soluble vitamins. Then the fat-soluble vitamins help you assimilate minerals. Cut back the fat and you’ve reduced mineral intake yet again.
That one-two punch of chelating some minerals and letting others pass through your system unabsorbed could be more than enough to derail a person metabolically.
I’m already damaged, so I need to avoid most carbs and it really doesn’t matter where they come from. I find calories are not quite so big a deal. I don’t deliberately cut them, I just eat when I’m hungry and stop when I’m satiated. I don’t think eating food drives obesity, I think obesity drives eating food, because if you’re fat then your lean tissues are not getting the energy you eat, which leaves you hungry. So I do what I can to prevent my energy being stored before I can use it and the rest seems to take care of itself.
I’d love to learn more about healing liver issues from fructose overconsumption, but I suspect it mostly involves eating right and letting nature take care of itself…
[Reply]
skustes: I definitely get fat eating fruit — just a quarter cup of fresh blueberries left my belly bloated for days!
While not all carbs necessarily trigger cravings for me, I do notice that the less carbs I eat, the more easy it is for me to satisfy my hunger on less food, and the longer I can go before feeling hungry again. So I find that when I can stick to it, zero or close to it is best for me. BTW I’m moderately active (work out once or twice a week for twenty minutes, other days alternate between walking, gardening and rest).
[Reply]
Various indigenous peoples throughout the world base their diets on different things depending on what is available and abundant. The one common denominator: no processed foods. Other healthy people do eat some processed foods in the form of white rice or white flour products, but they also eat lots of vegetables, fruits, legumes, whole grains and meat or fish in smaller or larger amounts. All participate in some kind of daily, low-intensity exercise — walking, biking, gardening, and so on.
I think the Amish diet is now as full of processed foods as is the SAD. The only exception would be that they don’t use microwaveable foods. The big difference between the Amish and the rest of us is the amount of exercise they get. Exercise is probably equally as, if not more, important that what we eat.
[Reply]
The other common denominator of unadulterated indigenous people – no high fructose corn syrup and much less fructose than the SAD regardless of the source…white sugar or fruit.
[Reply]
The zone diet is old BAD science.
[Reply]
to:Mike OD The zone diet is one of the WORST diet for a diabetic. The carbs are way to high. Barry Sears was pushed old very old BAD science for too long. I wish he would go away and allow Low carb and IF find its way into American diet without him.
[Reply]
Mike OD Reply:
@ pjnoir – here’s a quote from an article on the Zone diet and Diabetes from Diabetes in Control website:
“Regarding the effects of a Zone-like diet specifically in patients with type 2 diabetes, Markovic et al had obese patients with mild type 2 diabetes follow a calorie-restricted diet (approximately 1100 to 1200 calories per day) with a macronutrient ratio (carbohydrate:protein:fat) close to approximately 40:30:30 (actually 38:33:29) 20, 21 These patients improved insulin sensitivity, glucose control, reduced triglycerides, and improved their cholesterol profiles. By only the fourth day subjects improved their blood glucose and reduced their body fat, which the researchers attributed to the reduced consumption of carbohydrates. The increase in fat consumption also helped apparently by slowing the absorption of carbohydrates. ”
Honestly I’m not here to promote the Zone diet in any manner (I don’t do it), but if it forces people to make “better” choices of carbs, slow down glucose absorption with more healthier fats and keeps them in a calorie reduced state to lose weight….it can help. Of course so can a low carb and IF based diet (which is more in line with what I do mostly…with some carb ups around workouts/weekends). Personally I don’t like the zone because it’s too complicated and most people don’t follow it correctly in the first place….which is also why a recommendation for a low carb can work better as it doesn’t allow people to “guestimate” carb intakes….as most people are usually way off anyways.
[Reply]
Im sorry but 40% carbs is very unacceptable for diabetics. Sears and his diet has a fear of fat. P-50 F 40 C-10 or less is closer to what a diabetic needs. Sears bashes low carb and all other diet books and authors. The guy is not high on my list of decent humans, nor his diet ideas. Sorry not an attack on you Mike- just venting.
remember- “America dies on Duncan”
[Reply]
Mike
On 1100 cal a day of any diet diabetics will improve.
[Reply]
Excellent discussion! I’ve had long talks with my low carb adhering friends trying to defend my approach to diet which is leans toward Asian/ vegetarian. I agree that once there is evidence of glucose intolerance that a low carb diet may be necessary but it is not the only path to maintaining health. I eat lots of veggies , fruit, some grains, plus a little meat of fish a couple of times a week. So far so good. I do track my blood glucose and the only times it has been high postprandial,( over 140 @ 1 hour), is when I’ve stuffed myself. For me it doesn’t seem to be the types of food as much as the quanity ingested.
[Reply]
@pjnoir I have to wonder if diabetics tend to be more endomorphic than ectomorphic as a body type?
I mentioned how I heard about eating for your body type from creator of Precision Nutrition, John Berardi, but in this context it makes even more sense.
Ectomorphic? (Small/thin joints and frame) You can get away with 40% carbs and 25% protein.
Endomorphic? Not so small joints? Not so fast with the high-carb intake.
Back to the Okinawa diet, is it that these folks are ectomorphic and can thus tolerate 40% carb diets–that is it happens to be mainly correlation–or is it the other way around, that high-carb diets can make you ectomorphic?
Well, it seems like the former might be slightly more likely, as even though an ectomorph can gain or lose weight, you are still generally guided by the nervous system / thyroid / insulin mechanisms which brought forth your joint sizes in the first place.
[Reply]
Great article. Looks like the link to the shopping list is broken though. Any chance of getting this?
[Reply]
@ LisaD – Oops! Links are now fixed or you can see it directly here: http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/ShoppingList.pdf
[Reply]
I found the link for the shopping list: http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/ShoppingList.pdf
[Reply]
Heh, you got to it before I did. Thanks!
[Reply]